This is an interview with Emmanuel Guarino, the #1 Realtor for Residential Assisted Living in Arizona. He works alongside his wife to buy and sell more RAL’s than anyone in their prospective state. Emmanuel trains and teaches at the Residential Assisted Living Academy and he is a sought after coach and trainer for all things “RAL”. He has extensive background in Health and Wellness, as well as experience in Investing and Capital Raising within the RAL world.  Emmanuel has spoken across the country at many REIA groups, expos and conferences.

 

Why would your listeners be interested in the topic of Senior Housing?

The reality is that every one of us will have to face the fact that we will have to deal with aging and the need for care and housing as we age at some point.

Emmanuel shares with listeners how they can participate in this opportunity as a real estate investor, business owner or simply investing in this fast growing niche.

 

Here is the transcript for this episode:

 Or in this episode we’re going to interview Emmanuel garena from the residential assisted living economies
And this is the all-in-one
financial with bill
Driessen and
We discussed financial planning issues investing taxes estate plan
insurance retirement planning
All those issues. It’s brought to you by AI Oh financial
We’re a fee-only fiduciary financial planning firm and we work with clients across the u.s
You can find us at AI Oh financial calm. Alright, thank you for joining us in this episode. Emmanuel is uh,
He’s a number one realtor in
residential assisted living in Arizona and he works with his wife and
Any other
Well, I guess in anyone in in prospective states
he trains and teaches people at the residential assisted living economies and
He’s a coach and he deals with helping people get set up with
Running owning and operating a senior
Facility. Alright, let’s go to the interview. Alright Emmanuel. Thanks for for joining us today. My pleasure. I’m excited to be here
Alright, it sounds like a pretty interesting
Field you’re working in this residential assisted living
It’s got to be a growing field. Could you give us a little background on what that is? What what are you?
That’s usually one of the first questions when I say what I do, you know, I sell residential assisted living homes and people say
Okay, what is that, you know?
So in regards to residential assisted living what it is when we think of an assisted living we think of a larger facility
Right a big building kind of like in a commercial park
What we do is residential style assisted living homes, right?
So instead of a large building it’s done in a residential style home
And the reason why we do these homes and we teach on these homes is because we can help a lot of people
That’s the very first thing but secondly, they’re a very good investment, right?
If you’re looking invest in real estate
You might look for a single-family home to do a rental property out of and you might make a dollars
$200 $500 maybe but with a residential assisted living there’s a lot of income potential
so just kind of in a nutshell for the listeners the
average cost to live in an assisted living home in a private room across the country is
$4,000 a month to live in one of those homes. So in our homes for an example, we have 10 residents in each home
so at $4,000 resident potential monthly gross income is
40,000 the expenses for that home range between probably about 20 to
25,000 for any given month
So with that being said that one home can net ten fifteen twenty
Thousand dollars depending on that particular month. So that’s what we do is we own those type of homes
We also sell those type of homes, but we also teach on how to do those homes at the residential assisted living a category
So you’re teaching people to go out and buy a home convert it to this facility
Like about how many people how many residents would there be in?
typical
Converted home. That’s a great question. So really there’s three main ways to get started
You can buy an existing home that’s already running as a residential assisted living. That’s what we did
There’s another way where you can buy a home like you’re talking about converted
You know change up some of the bedrooms that there’s a large master bedroom
Maybe putting a wall down in the middle of that room and turning that into extra bedrooms
Or you can build a custom home for this type of project
So there’s really three main ways to get involved in this business in regards to how many people we want in the home
You know the more the merrier right the more people you have the less you really need to charge at the end of the day
Right, if you’re a high-end Steakhouse and you got 50 people coming in that night, you know
Your ticket prices are gonna be very high. If you’re McDonald’s, it’s the opposite right? You got 500 people coming in that day
They don’t need to charge as much
so with our homes what we like to see is somewhere between about 6 residents and
16
Residents because when you go lower than 6 it’s very hard to make the economics work
Because you have to charge a lot of money to make that business model
Very feasible on the other side of things when you get into
1720 25 residents in a home it no longer feels like a home
It feels more like a facility at the end of the day. Sure
What?
Special services do typical assisted living facilities provide is it just meals are they doing?
nursing services
Yeah, so when our facilities what they’re providing is the caregivers in the home not doctors and nurses
Right, the caregivers are helping them out with activities of daily living
So what that would be is, you know cooking and cleaning and getting up and out of bed, you know
baby shower and brushing your teeth
All of those are activities of daily living that, you know, we’ve all done today or at least I should today
I’ve been drinking this coffee and it’s your brush my teeth again, but you get the idea
Those are all things we do on a day to day side of things and our residents and our homes
They’re starting to need help with those activities of daily living so they need
You know, true medical assistance, they’re gonna move on to what’s called a skilled nursing facility, which is your next level up
that’s where it becomes medical doctors and nurses our
Residents, you know, they’re just getting a little bit older and they’re just starting to need help with their day to day lives
And so that’s really what we’re focused on is activities of daily living that we’re helping them out with in those homes
What I guess two questions, I thought of are you helping with med?
Disbursement and about how many in a 10 person home?
How many staff do you need to run that? Yeah, two great questions right there
So with our homes, what we like to have is usually 1 to 4 1 to 5 1 to 6
Caregiver to resident ratio, you know, we talked about where our competitive
advantages over a larger facility
In a larger facility if you go in and you ask you know, what is your you know?
Caregivers resident ratio they may say what we have old 1 to 8
Staff to resident ratio and notice how they use two different word their staff
Because someone on the staff might be the gardener out front, you know working on the lawn. It’s not necessarily the
Caregivers who are helping those residents in that facility
So they might truly have a 1 2 1 2 15 1 2 20 caregiver to resident ratio
So when we talk about our competitive advantage usually we have a much better caregiver to rest and ratio
That’s what we’re able to provide and that shows you what we see in regards to our homes now in regards to medications
Right. We all need to take medications now are then in our homes?
We cannot administer right give someone the medication. Hey, you got to take this know
What I can do is I can say you know, Martha here. Here’s your medicine. It’s right here on the place map
You take that whenever you’re ready during your meal, right? I can do that
If someone if I put down that medication and they go I don’t know what that is
and who are you and this and that and I don’t want to take that that person is probably
At a stage where they need to move on to the next level, right? That’s skilled nursing or home. That’s
For people who are starting to have very serious memory loss at that point because they’re not remembering. Why am I taking this medication?
That’s probably that next level of care on that we’re talking about there
But yes, we can place the medication down, but we can’t you know, pass it
You know to them necessarily so we do help out with that to an extent
But if someone is not accepting that
Medication that usually is an obvious sign that they need to move on to that next level of care
Would um would a facility accept I know access and Arizona, it’s a Medicaid
Does that generally get compensated
So in regards to how someone pays rate we talked about the national average being
$4,000 a month to be in one of these homes. You know that
$4,000 that you know first glance. It’s like wow, that’s a lot of money when you’re thinking about it’s like
$4,000 and this is added but if you think about it, what are you know in any of the listeners listening?
What are your monthly expenses, you know, you think about entertainment your food your housing everything all included?
Most people listening are probably somewhere between about three and five thousand dollars a month so that four thousand dollars
That’s the first thing we need to realize is it sounds like a lot first
But that’s covering everything that’s food housing the care that there
At home and all of their bills are being paid with that
$4,000. So in regards to how someone pays for that there’s a number of ways, you know, the first one is, you know
Private pay, you know, many people who are moving into these homes. They have a family, right?
They have sons and they have daughters and those sons and those daughters. They don’t want to move their mom into a home
That’s you know, not very nice if it’s in the bad area of town
They don’t necessarily want to drop off their aging mother and they see you later, you know, make sure to lock the doors
You know, they want to make sure it’s a great place because most everyone
Really wants their family to be in the best position that they can be in
So in regards to that, sometimes the family will help out in that regard. Sometimes it’s you know that resident
This may be one of their last stops their selling their house
They’re selling off those assets, you know, all of us listening right under the podcast
We’re listening because we’re saying hey, I want to have enough money
So when I go to retire, I can retire and breathe easy
right
And I can have those funds that I need for when I move into one of these homes when we talk about state pay, right?
Medicaid and things like that
if someone cannot afford to live in an assisted living
Then what they’ll do is they’ll go to the state the state will make sure they’re not just gonna hand this money out to anybody
They’re gonna make sure you absolutely do not have any money at all. And then they’re gonna give out, you know, it might be
$2,000 a month for someone to move into one of these homes. So the challenge with that is is that
$2,000. It doesn’t necessarily go very far right? It’s not necessarily getting you into the nicest homes
So with our homes
We focus on more private pay type residents in our homes
And/or insurances like we were talking about long-term care insurance, you know
We’ve all heard of auto insurance and health insurance and things like that life insurance, but long-term care insurance
That’s for someone moving into assisted living. So for listeners who have that. Hey, that’s awesome
Because when you go to move into one of those homes that insurance company is going to pay for all of that
And so that’s a couple of the ways that someone could pay to be into one of these homes
But the large majority of people in America as we said for dollars is the average
You know when we travel across the country, we always ask the rooms that we sneak in
Has anyone moved anyone into assisted living and the numbers that we hear are just incredible, you know eight ten twelve
Thousand dollars a month think about that twelve thousand dollars a month
That’s not necessarily the category we’re going for
but you know that four thousand dollars a month is very reasonable when you start to break it down and
Consider all the things that are included in that four thousand dollars
Sure, and I’m sure varies a lot with what state you’re in what city?
So
some of the regulatory hurdles and things have to deal with as far as
Investing in one of these properties or if you’re setting what I’m a graduate soon. There’s yeah
Every County probably has its own
Regulations. How does that work?
Yeah, so the state in the city want to make sure of really two main things, right?
The state wants to make sure in the city that hey is this person the right person to be running one of these homes did
Someone just get out of prison for Elder Abuse. That’s probably not the best price. You run into home, right?
so they want to make sure that the people involved in that project are the right people and
The second thing is they want to make sure that the home is safe, right?
They want to make sure that it’s equipped properly for the residents for the people that are gonna be in that home
So really that’s what they’re making sure of there’s a licensing process through the city through the state
They need to make sure of those two main things
That’s the biggest thing at the end of the day
but in regards to age one of the piggyback on that last topic we were talking about I was just in San
Francisco for an example we talked about different areas of the country being more expensive in
Some of those areas. Well, it’s interesting
San Fransisco their average to be in a private room and assisted living it’s not $4,000. That’s an expensive markets
$5,500 a month on average
Average not the high end not the low an average
$5,500 a month. It just really is incredible at the end of the day and if you’re in the right spot
It’s a great place to be, you know, just piggybacking on that point as well
even if you just do one of these homes
You know do it for yourself so you can move into
These homes and get paid to live in your own home and then you don’t even have to worry about it
That’s what we have
You know, we got three homes in the family so we can all have our own home at the end of the day
What kind of capital investment is it – I mean it seems like
I guess how do people invest do they generally buy a whole facility or is there way to
partially invest
It’s a great question with our projects
We’re focusing on single-family homes in nicer areas, right more well-established areas
So it’s not in the middle of the woods and it’s not, you know in the bad area of town
This isn’t a rental property
It’s an assisted living a home and residence that they’re in so we want to do it in nicer areas
So depending on where you are in the country that’s gonna depend on how much the real-estate cost
So if I’m in a place like San Francisco a million dollars, hey, a million dollars doesn’t go that far right in Phoenix, Arizona
Hey a million dollars goes very very far right and that can get you an amazing home
So depending on where you are in the country, we just talked about it San Francisco. Their average is fifty five hundred a month
But they’re real estates more expensive. So those costs that are associated with that those fall down to the consumer, right?
The consumer has to pay for that at the end of the day if the minimum wage is higher
Then the consumer has to pay for it, right?
So when we talk about the capital to invest in one of these projects really will depend
Depending on the project, but what we’re looking for is nicer homes ranch-style homes bigger homes
From that standpoint and we want to be in areas that are much more well-established
Not some brand-new area that’s being developed where 20 and 30 year olds live, right?
That might be a nice place to live
But we want to be in the right area where those baby boomers are who can afford to put their mom or dad
Into these homes and pay, you know that four or five six seven eight thousand dollars a month
that’s really where we want to be focused in our
So but for an investor they need to come up with partners or themselves
To finance a home like this. I
Don’t know how fine it would just be a business property. You see you’re probably it’s like a rental property though
With
Yeah with these type of projects you should what it is is an SBA loan so a Small Business Administration loan
It’s backed by the government
And what’s nice about those loans is they can
Help you buy the home
they can help with the
conversions and then the caring costs because when you’re starting off that project you’re not full day one right you may have a number of
Residents move in on that opening day, but in the beginning you’re ramping things up and you’re starting to get full
So what’s nice is with an SBA loan. They can actually cover all of those phases
that’s one of the things we teach on at the academy is how to get through that loan process as fast as
Possible and if you don’t want to go down that route, you know getting partners or investors in these projects
It’s amazing when we talk about all the money there is out there that wants to be investing in projects
I’ll have people be speaking. I was just in Northern California like I was saying I was in San Jose and
It was funny because it was back-to-back questions. Someone asked
Hey, what if I have all the money in the world?
But I don’t want to run the business and then the next person asked well what if I don’t have the money?
But I just want to run the business and I’m like, are you guys even listening to each other?
You don’t talk to each other, you know
There are so much money out there and if you know how to present yourself with any opportunity you can raise that capital
I always let people know
when someone’s
Investing in your project. They’re not investing in the project. They’re investing in you right? That’s the biggest thing
So knowing how to present yourself your project is an incredibly important thing
Because if you’re raising it through a bank they’re investing in you if you’re investing with partners or friends or family
They’re investing in you as well
So knowing how to present yourself is incredibly important. So knowing your numbers knowing the deal is going to be a big part of that
What about filling a
Facility is there I mean, it’s just Google listings
I am not sure how or is there some directory with the state of these are certified
Assisted living facilities. Yeah. So one of the biggest things is with this industry
This is a reputation based industry. You know with someone’s mom. It’s someone’s dad
This is something that they care very very uh is very near and dear to their heart
They want to make sure that if someone’s moving into this home, they’re gonna be saved
So if someone has a bad experience that’s you know
One way ticket to getting your home to not cash flow from that standpoint
But when you have that good reputation when you’re known in the community as a great home a great place to be that
home is gonna fill up very very quickly because that’s what people are looking for at the end of the day when we talk about
Filling that home
We may have uh, you know, so many listeners may have heard of a place for mom, right?
That’s a national placement agency where if I typed in right now assisted livings in Phoenix
Arizona a place for mom would pop up and they might be the first four out of five
You know ads that pop up and what they are is a placement service
so if I type in my information
They’re gonna give me a call and they’re gonna help me find an assisted living that suits my needs in my area
Now that placement agent service. It’s a free service to the consumer
But the way that they get paid is that home is gonna pay usually that first month’s rent to that placement service
so if somebody moves in at four thousand
we write them a check for
$4,000 that goes to a place your mom or that placement agent service now a place arm is a big one
But there’s a lot of people where that’s what they do. That’s their full-time job is making those relationships
So whether you’re making those relationships with those doctors and nurses, they’re social workers or you’re paying for it, you know
you’re gonna pay for one way or another at the end of the day with your time and your effort or
You know money to fill up that home
So that’s another thing that we go over is how to market your home
Another way is having an open house
You know when you say I’m opening up a residential care home in the neighborhood
A lot of people are like whatever what you’re you’re opening up a hospital in my neighborhood
They don’t know what you’re talking about, right?
So when you have that open house when you allow those neighbors to go in and see it and feel it and touch it
Right and experience it
It really comes to life for them and the idea of you know, hey
I can move my mom or dad in in the same neighborhood that I’m living in I can still live my life I can go
Visit them whenever I’d like that’s a really cool thing
and so having those open houses building those relationships and then placement services, of course, and then you know
Of course you want to do websites and you know Google ads and things like that as well
But those are going to be the big ones
It’s a relationship based business. So building those relationships at the end of the days gonna be the biggest thing
We’re just kind of circling back on that
So do you get a lot of pushback from people in neighborhoods?
when you announce that you’re gonna be opening a facility like this and their
Neighborhood is that something you have to deal with a lot of opposition?
That’s a great question. So within every neighborhood if there’s a hundred neighbors in a neighborhood as we all know
There’s one or two neighbors that has their nose and everybody else’s business right where it’s like hey
Your trash can was out too long and this and that and you know things of that nature
in regards to pushback, there’s always gonna be that one or two neighbors, but what’s funny is and
You know, this has happened so many times now with the first time I heard a story like this
I was like no way that’s crazy
That’s a wild, you know, there’s always that one neighbor or two neighbors in the neighborhood that just don’t want you there
You know, let’s just be honest when they hear a residential care home that gone not in my neighborhood, right?
and
So we had a story and I’ve heard this story happened so many times
Where someone comes up to the house and they leave a note on the wall
Or they knock on the door and they say I’m gonna do everything in my power to make sure that you know
My mom or you know, I get you shut down, right?
they’re trying everything they can and then they get invited into the home right and then they walk through and they see it and then
They go. Oh
This is kind of cool and we had a story one of our clients. We are to selling their care home
They told us a story of that. They had a neighbor who did that two years later
She moves her mom into the home and she was one of the best
you know moms that into place and they loved having her there and
that’s one of the biggest things is it’s really that fear of the unknown right because when someone doesn’t understand what you’re doing
You know, hey, there’s a reason to be concerned because you don’t know what it is
So when you can show someone this is what it is. It’s not a hospital
It’s a house and what’s cool about them as a neighbor?
You know an assisted living group home as a neighbor is a very good neighbor because they’re not throwing crazy parties. They’re not you know
You know raising Rottweilers in the bathroom, like some rental properties like that
They’re very good neighbors, but the other thing is – at the end of the day
We’re protected by the federal fair housing laws privacy rules. They can’t discriminate against the elderly
So even if they don’t want us there, you know, they can cry themselves to sleep that night
You know, it’s it’s tough tough news
We’re gonna be here but if someone’s being very tough really that’s where that fear is coming from
Is that fear of the unknown and especially once the home gets running people are like, yeah
They forget about it after you know, that first week, they’re like, oh, yeah, I guess that one’s a group home
I might be that house or that house. They can’t even remember at the end of the day. So sure I
think in your geographic area that you’re I
Guess if my understanding is your organization gives classes
Is that your piece or do you offer investment opportunities? Yeah
well
What we do the residential assisted living economies were the number one educators in the country on how to do these type of homes
so we teach on the marketing and the staffing and where to do them the
Finances and really we teach an A to Z guide on how to do this in a fast productive efficient way
And so that’s what we do at the Academy and we’re based in Phoenix, Arizona
but for a nationwide company
We have students from all over the US and I think we’re in somewhere in the 200 to 300 care homes
So we’ve helped open across the u.s. So we’re very proud of that and things have been going well
Great great
If people want to know more where can they get in touch with you, you know
The residential assisted living at Kadim e.com is the best place to go for a lot of information
But if you’re not a very fast typer and that’s hard to remember
RAL
101.com
Is a great place to get free content?
You know sign up for discovery call find out if this is the right opportunity for you
And I think we’re also given out to your listeners a free book investing in senior housing that they can pick up at RAL
101.com as well. Oh great. Okay. I will put that link in the show notes
terrific on the blog
All right a manual that’s a pretty exciting area. I hadn’t heard of this
I mean, I know there’s facilities here, but I hadn’t even thought of it as a
non
Specialty anyone could get into it
Yeah, as opposed definitely most are hey if we can do it anybody can do it at the end of the day
It’s dance burg, you know, it’s a growing aging population. There’s gonna be a lot of need for this. Yeah
Hey those definitely I I had someone tell me the other day
It’s like a garden hose or a basketball coming through a garden hose when you look at the demographics, you know
The the silver tsunami is coming and yeah, they need a place to stay. So it’s a great time to get in the industry
Sure, that’s great. All right. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thanks guys. All right
Thank you for listening to AAO financial. What do you think of this? You had a lot of interesting information?
It was something that I heard of before but hadn’t heard that perspective on it. So
You know just kind of starting one from the ground up
Seems like it might be a good option for some people looking for that type of investment. Yeah, it’s not really an investment opportunity
or like
Hurting a business. I mean is it’s
It’s involved. I mean, I guess you can get partners to split up the work but it’s uh, it’s
a whole business and it seems like quite a bit of capital and quite a bit of
Not passive investment
That’s gonna be your full-time job that’s that’s not a
Biased stock and sit back for 10 years or at the very least
you got to hire somebody to do that outside of it, and then you gotta make sure they’re
Yeah, interesting no, I mean it’s some sure it’s a growing area I
Think especially in Arizona. It seems like even Tucson area seems like it’s something that’s become more and more popular
Yeah, we have a lot of facilities. They know I just say my grandmother was in that
it was kind of a residential a
big house that they converted and
Worked out well for her. I I think the care
he was talking about very light level of care and I think
Well, there’s gonna be an audience for that
But if you could provide more care you’d get a bigger audience, but it’s probably more cost more risk more liability
But all right. Well, it’s interesting sure. Um, okay. This is brought to you by Hayao financial
If you need help with any part of your finances
Please contact a IO financial for free meeting a IO
Financial com if you have any questions or comments, please leave them on the video
We will personally get back to you and I’d love to discuss this. Yeah. Thanks for listening

 

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